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'There’s no signposting. It’s too expensive. I’m too busy.'

Those are some of the most common reasons given by business leaders for not launching green initiatives - or looking into ways to become net-zero.

But as a NatWest-led roundtable on how SMEs across Merseyside, Cheshire and North Wales heard, despite the hurdles at first appearing seemingly large, there are smaller steps firms can look to when starting out on their sustainability journey.

Hosted by the bank’s director of commercial banking Julian Brooks and director of commercial banking for Liverpool and Cheshire, Corinna Sissons, the virtual event examined key issues faced by the business community around climate.

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Attending the virtual discussion were Craig Shaw, operations director at Sure Energy Solutions; Michael Cosser, a partner at Brock Carmichael Architects; Graeme Jones, director at C-Probe Systems; Stuart Andrew, a design and planning director at Castle Green Homes; and Rob Capleton, industrial relations manager at the University of Liverpool’s Low Carbon Eco Innovatory Programme.

Participants spoke about how businesses as well as the wider community can look at practical ways to become more environmentally conscious, with it hoped to help businesses have more confident conversations about climate.

Speaking about the reasons entrepreneurs and business leaders give for not pursuing sustainable initiatives, Mr Capleton said: “It’s [always] the same type of thing which is always the issue - no signposting, cost prohibitive, owners being too busy.

“But actually, it’s about small steps, and I think [for example] every company, without spending any money, without having spending too much time, can basically start to benchmark their business in terms of their sustainability - and put a strategy and a framework together.”

Mr Capleton, who has worked on low carbon projects with both the University of Liverpool and John Moores University for 13 years and is the “conduit” for commercial firms looking to access the institution, added: “It's quite easy to benchmark your business looking at some specific areas of the business where energy consumption is high, and what can be done to turn that around and there are various different online tools.”

Aside from the initial, seemingly smaller barriers, the panel was also asked about the single biggest issue preventing businesses from becoming greener.

Mr Shaw, whose Birkenhead-based organisation specialises in natural refrigerant solutions in industries including meat processing, dairy and beverage industries, said: “The big mention as with anything is resources and constraints of finance, time and energy.

“No business will be able to change if they don't have the initiative to. You do need to create time for members of staff to help out or to second them on to projects, so that's the biggest prevention.”

On marketing the initiatives, he added: “It helps our business, it helps our brand. I'm not blind to that. But equally, we are doing it for the right reasons.

“We're not doing it because we want to say we are green - we want to do it, because we work with integrity, and also in the knowledge that, in maybe four or five years time, it will be a requirement for businesses to say what they're producing - so it makes sense to get ahead and do that.”

Mr Cosser, partner at the Liverpool-based architecture firm founded in Liverpool in 1974, added: “Certainly, for SMEs, a lot of the time, it's the case that you're working in the business, not on the business, and finding the time to do that is probably the biggest impediment

“In terms of how to overcome that - it's about looking for that external advice and support.

“Also, crucially, learning from other businesses. I think it’s great seeing case studies of what others have done, even if they're small steps, or steps that you feel that ‘actually, we could do that’. There's massive power in that, I think.

“The more you have that network of support and advice and seeing how you can embark on that, it then builds momentum.”

Mr Jones is director of C-Probe, a corrosion monitoring and management business based in St Helens, targeting restoration of existing structures in the construction sector.

He said the biggest obstacle was “education” - but that can be overcome by innovative marketing.

He said social media helps “massively” - and that the firm has recently brought in a group marketing coordinator.

He explained: “The difference in the perception of C-Probe since she's come on board has been fantastic.

“We gave her the remit not just to talk about what we do - we are low carbon, clearly, everything we do is about sustainability - but the important thing is that we also interface with other items that need to go on to a construction site or building site.

“We would put something out on social media because it reflects well on us. It means that we've got a wider agenda, we care more widely about the whole subject.

“So if there is technology that we like, it reflects well on us if we tell people about it, it’s as simple as that.

“So I think being a bit magnanimous in your journey, a little bit of acknowledgment that other innovations are actually quite frankly, fascinating, so you may as well put them in your social media and tell people about them.

“If it gets a few hits, a few likes, then they've listened to you.

“It's education and willingness to be educated - and we work in a construction sector that's notoriously slow on the uptake.”

A key takeaway from the session was the various groups and organisations that can help firms on their climate journey - with the NatWest representatives in attendance asserting that customers are sometimes unsure what services are available.

The panel discussed the numerous outfits such as the Manufacturing Technology Centre, Made Smarter, universities, growth hubs and local and combined authorities - with firms urged to explore the opportunities on offer.

Offering his advice, Mr Capleton said: “I've learned over the years that with business owners, the best advice that they can get is from other business owners that have gone through support, and [organisations] they can recommend.

“It's the old idea of ‘let's recommend a tradesman’. But It's true, because you all know over the years a type of support you've had, and you know where the best value supporters have come from, and the best outputs from that.

“So when people come to you, you're going to say, ‘go to the University of Liverpool, because they're fantastic’, or whatever it might be, because of the support you've had.”

During the session, each panellist was asked to explain the most impactful step they had taken on their sustainability journey so far.

Mr Jones said his corrosion monitoring and management firm’s journey began in the form of a “eureka moment” - and that the team “didn’t really set out to achieve something sustainable”.

Looking to develop the firm’s technology and market offering further, it commissioned a PhD at Sheffield Hallam University which developed a multi-functional, fireproof carbon fibre strengthening and Impressed Current Cathodic Protection composite system.

From that, it developed a groundbreaking range of geopolymer mortar and concrete technologies, meaning a new form of cement to replace traditionally-used Portland variety.

He said: “We came out with something that was on a commercial level very valuable, on a technical level, tremendous, and on a sustainability level, just outstanding.

“We've spent the last 10 years building a product range around it.”

He said the firm has just finished a global incubator programme in New York - and is now looking at setting up a manufacturing facility there, adding: “Life is looking good.”

Mr Cosser said that Brock Carmichael, one of Liverpool’s most famous architecture firms, had in the past “focused a lot of time” thinking about how to make clients’ buildings greener without spending enough time looking at its own.

He said: “Over the last 12 months, we've actually started to do that.

“I think the biggest step we've taken is staff engagements and making sure that our staff are keen to see a sustainable approach to the business.

“We were established in 1974. In three years’ time, we'll be celebrating our 50th birthday.

“I think the business has proven itself to be sustainable, but we have to grip ourselves going forward.

“So we've set up health and wellbeing groups. And that's looking at a wide range of different factors, not just how we use energy, but also more the health and wellbeing of the quality of environments, and the use of natural ventilation.

“I think the more that we explore, and that we can do ourselves, we can showcase and advocate ways in which businesses can adopt sustainability measures, and to an extent start to try and demystify some of the questions of 'how do we get there? What is it all about? what can we do and perhaps in a small way, to contribute to the wider thing?'.

“We've adopted a recycling process now. It was seen as being a bit of a barrier, just the disposal bit, but we've now got that and we've introduced the cycle to work scheme.”

Mr Shaw said the first step in his firm’s sustainable journey came early on - and involved installing solar panels.

“We moved into our building probably about three years ago. The previous business had a lot of inefficient lighting and really large gas heaters in the workshop,” he said.

“So we removed all of that, put in LED lighting, proxy sensors, and electric climate control in all the rooms.

“We then had over 50 panels put in on our roof. So what that does is firstly, the obvious investment side is one thing, but then it also gets you thinking, once it's in, ‘how do we start making the most of the energy that we're generating - how do we retain the energy and make the use of it?’ It actually starts to prompt other questions as you keep moving forward.”

Mr Andrew said his North Wales-headquartered housing firm - which aims to deliver homes in line with the Government’s Green Revolution pledge - has been working on sustainable schemes for many years.

That includes trialling air source heating pumps - devices not generating heat themselves, instead moving it around homes.

He said this was “likely to become increasingly the norm over the course of the decade”. But he said with such green initiatives it can sometimes bring challenges when bidding for land.

He added: “Certainly, where the market is there, we're looking to take steps early. There's certainly customer interest in that and I think the public's approach to this has moved on a great deal.

“From a marketing point of view, it gives us a unique position, but also from the point of view of ethics, it's appropriate and the right thing to do. As a management team, we're all behind it.”

It was said at the virtual event that, like most housebuilders, Mr Andrew’s firm is at the “bleeding edge of change”.

It is currently working with Mitsubishi on an air source scheme and attempting to create an adapted specification for new homes that will ultimately meet “what we envisage to be the future homes standard of 2025”.

Speaking about recent challenges the firm has faced predicting what new Government building regulations will be announced in the coming months and years, he said: “I could speak for quite a long time about how difficult it is to predict change at the moment.

“We've obviously been anticipating changes to the building regulations for new build dwellings in the ������Ƶ, in England and Wales, for the last 12 to 18 months now, and information, in part because of Covid, took longer than expected to filter through.

“Although the intent is very clearly spelled out by the current government, there's very little detail there in terms of how we will demonstrate that we'll achieve the goals that have been set.

“We're certainly trying to be innovative and to predict the direction of travel, and I think there are advantages for us as a business in doing this.

“But obviously, being an innovator sometimes makes for quite a busy day. You've got obstacles to overcome and there aren't really very many good examples of others having done the same thing already.

“It’s certainly an aspiration to try and project ourselves into that position really, and try and be front of the pack really.”