It's nearly 40 years since Welsh language channel S4C first aired and current chief executive Owen Evans is upbeat on the future despite challenges such as its funding outlook.
The public service broadcaster, launched in 1982, sees significant opportunities in its expanding digital offering and a growing audience outside of Wales.
It will also have a key role to play if the Welsh Government is to achieve its aim of increasing the number of Welsh speakers (within Wales) to one millions by 2050 鈥 there are just over half a million based on the 2011 census, while in terms of content commissioning S4C remains vital for the independent television TV production sector in Wales.
Indeed, the channel was very much the launchpad for a number of independents, most notably in Tinopolis and Boom (now Twofour), to not only secure 海角视频-wide commissions but expand internationally too.
The focus for the channel is securing a new long-term funding agreement with negotiations ongoing with the 海角视频鈥檚 Government Department for Culture Media and Sport (DCMS) over a new five year deal from 2022-23.
Long gone are the days when the channel enjoyed annual rises based on the higher rate of inflation, the retail price index.
Where once it had an annual budget settlement of around 拢100m from the taxpayer, that has been reduced to around 拢81m and from 2022-23 it will be solely funded from the BBC licence fee although in a major boost the 海角视频 Treasury for the financial year just commenced has allowed S4C to reclaim VAT.
Mr Evans, who took up the chief executive role in 2017, having previously been the joint second most聽 senior civil servant in Welsh Government, said the channel was working flexibility and imaginatively to get through the Covid-19 pandemic.
Last week it announced an up to 拢6m package of support to the hard-pressed television production sector, including an immediate commissioning round of nearly 拢3m seeking content aimed at lifting the spirits of its viewers.
The pandemic has delayed the move to broadcasting out of BBC Wales鈥 new HQ at Central Square in the centre of Cardiff, instead it will continue to broadcast from its former headquarters at Ty Glas in the聽 Llanishen area of the capital.
Mr Evans said: 鈥淲e were meant to be moving in with BBC Wales at Central Square, so that has been put on hold for now. We made a decision about a year ago to buy Ty Glas from our commercial fund (from which around 拢13m remains from its 拢34m share of the sale of channel operating firm SDN to ITV in 2005).
鈥淭he reason we did that was if anything went wrong with the BBC, we would still have a space where we could broadcast with the servers, the big fibre lines and broadcast technology still held at Ty Glas.鈥
Mr Evans added: 鈥淲e had big聽 dramas like Un Bore Mercher (Keeping Faith) where we had to drop tools and our main two soaps in Rownd a Rownd and Pobol y Cwm stopped a couple of weeks ago. We have major things like the Urdd, the Royal Welsh Show, Llangollen, the National Eisteddfod, so there are big gaps in the timetable.
鈥淭here are a number of things we have done and will be doing over the coming weeks, but we are protecting things that we have and where we have content in the bank we have been trying to make our inventory last longer.
鈥淪o, for example, Pobol y Cwm has gone from three times a week to two. We have also launched an educational website with content for people with young children and we are about to launch a pop up channel on our player, Clic, which will basically be how to survive Covid-19, not just about the disease but how to keep fit and healthy, as well as awareness around mental health. There will also be box sets and old sports content and all the stuff from the archives.
鈥淭here is still lots of money we owe companies (supplies), so I have said if you invoice us we will pay immediately and we are also spending around 拢3m on a rapid commissioning round.鈥
Like many broadcasters S4C has seen a rise in audiences during the pandemic.
Mr Evans said: 鈥淭hey are pretty much up across the day, ranging from 20% to 40%. S4C Clic is up by 30%, Newyddion 21% and Heno 23%."
Of its funding only 拢6.7m comes from the DCMS. And from 2022-23, it will be solely from the licence fee (currently around 拢74.5m). It also generates around 拢1m from its own commercial activities.
Could the channel, based on a significant growth in Welsh speakers and rising interest from outside of Wales, ever be able to operate without taxpayers鈥 support?
Mr Evans said: 鈥淚 start from the basis that we serve in an area where there is market failure, so I don鈥檛 think S4C would ever be a commercial proposition.
鈥淚 think that is where we are different with regards the BBC as there are some bits where they are competing with content from other suppliers. However, for S4C it is a bit different as everything we do nobody else produces.
鈥淭he funny thing about S4C is that if you look back over the years we have been funded by a number of different models. We have been funded with direct grants from the Home Office, at the start from advertising revenues from ITV, and currently we have this hybrid where it is part licence fee and part DCMS.
鈥淚n 2022 that goes completely to licence fee, but the key bit in all of this is the amount of money we get is settled by the DCMS and not the BBC.
鈥淪o the critical things for me is one, a clear understanding at government (海角视频) level that there is market failure, and two, the fact that there is a clear need for the service that we provide and we have recently had strong guidance from the Treasury that they value what we are doing.
鈥淭he third bit is that we have a proper discussion with the DCMS about our future funding and for them then to decide where that money comes from.
鈥淲hether it is from a licence fee, or something like a broadband levy, we are fairly agnostic, but we do passionately believe in the public sector broadcast model where there is a fund to produce our content.鈥
As a uniquely Welsh service, should S4C be devolved? Many would argue, and have, that as a public service broadcaster mandated to produce only Welsh language content, it is incongruous for the channel to be funded (despite a Welsh licence fee and tax contribution) out of London.
The issue is hardly new. Evans said: 鈥淚t is an odd one, but we haven鈥檛 got a view. I was in front of an Assembly committee on this quite recently and the way I see it is that S4C is a public service broadcaster that is currently growing faster outside of Wales than within it, so we have got a 海角视频 footprint.
鈥淚f you want to make it devolved I can see there are advantages in doing that, but also a lot of difficulties that will cause. However, if you leave it in London then of course you have the question that we are predominantly still a Welsh language broadcaster serving the people of Wales.
鈥淲e maybe serving the digital community far wider, but there are questions of how we engage with the Welsh Government, particularly around the aim of growing the Welsh language.
鈥淥ne of the things that Euryn Ogwen Williams鈥 report two years ago on the future of S4C recommended was that we worked far more closely with Welsh Government, and we have done that. I meet with Welsh Government officials and ministers and we are currently working with them on what we could do to help education and how we support the 鈥榤illion鈥 (Welsh speakers target by 2050).
鈥淚 think there is far more collaboration between us and we also present our annual report to the Assembly, as well as DCMS.鈥
BBC Wales has to provide 10 hours of content a week for S4C, including news and Pobol y Cwm. What would happen if the BBC, particularly if its licence fee was significant reduced or abolished with a subscription model introduced, was no longer able to provide that level of content, the value of which runs into millions of pounds a year?
Mr Evans said: 鈥淲e have no guarantee that when 2022 comes along that the DCMS will honour what funding we get now, so this is all in the discussions that we are having behind the scenes about the future stability and funding of S4C. Part of that is ensuring that they have the ability to provide us with that we have now.鈥
In 2010 the channel suffered a major funding reduction, followed by years of salami slicing.
Mr Evans said: 鈥淪ince I have been in charge we have had flat cash, but this coming year we have a small inflationary increase.
鈥淭he big difference in the future is that it will all come through the licence fee. Second, it is a five year deal not a one year deal so the amount that we get will be critical,
as if we get a figure that isn鈥檛 sustainable you have to survive for five years.鈥
S4C will be asking for an inflation linked rise per annum. Inflation in dramas has been running at around 10%, due to the increased demands from new digital players like Netflix.
On the channel鈥檚 relationship with BBC Wales and the content provision arrangement, Mr Evans said: 鈥淚 would describe it like being two brothers, so occasionally we have fights, but most of the time we get on.
鈥淚n fairness to the BBC in no way would they ever seek to influence us editorially and that is quite right.鈥
On the wider creative industry sector in Wales Mr Evans said: 鈥淓veryone focuses on films and high-end drama, which I can understand, but if you are say filming a high-end drama it sucks a huge number of people and then they disappear.鈥
He said new entrants like Bad Wolf, the Cardiff-based studio and production business, had created a procession of high-end drama projects, most notably His Dark Materials and a Discovery of Witches, and employment for a huge amount of people.
He added: 鈥淚t causes us some problems, but they are welcomed, in the fact that because of the amount of demand that they have, it is putting prices up for us which makes it
a little bit more difficult to shoot stuff.鈥
On S4C role in the creative industry ecosystem Mr Evans said: 鈥淚an Hargreaves鈥 review of the Welsh industry about six years ago basically concluded that S4C kept the industry going during the year. If you took S4C out, the industry would really struggle as we are the ones commissioning for a full channel day in day out, through the year, with comedy, entertainment, music, documentary, sport, you name it we are commissioning it.
鈥淔or sustainability, S4C is the backbone of the sector.鈥
S4C has a workforce of 120, with just under half at its Yr Egin HQ in Carmarthen, alongside Ty Glas and its office in Caernarfon.鈥
Carmarthen secured the project for the relocation of its HQ from Cardiff. The Yr Egin project from the University of Wales Trinity Saint David has been funded by the City Deal for Swansea Bay City Region, with S4C having agreed an upfront payment of long-term rent. However, a significant number of staff decided to leave rather than take on a change of HQ.
鈥淚 have gone on record and said we could have probably been better in the way we communicated the making of the decision with staff,鈥 said Mr Evans.
He added: At the end of the day, working for S4C is fantastic, but you do sometimes need to be in the headquarters. So for people with young children or caring responsibilities, I absolutely could see why some decided to take the money [redundancy] rather than transfer, but we have managed to recruit well in Carmarthen and I have got over 50% of the staff there who are all local now. And that figure will increase year on year.鈥
Mr Evans said part of the long-term rental agreement to move to Yr Egin was a contractual clause that the building needed to be a certain percentage let.
The chief executive, a former聽 executive for BT in Wales and chief executive of Business in the Community Wales, said: 鈥淚 didn鈥檛 want to move from the capital into an office in Carmarthen where we would just be rattling round on our own. The whole point was to get closer to other sectors and those working in the creative sector.鈥
S4C occupies a third of the building, alongside a couple of production companies, translation firms, publishers, accountants and a business incubator unit run by Business Wales.
On where he sees the channel in five years time, he said: 鈥淚 think we are morphing from a single channel into a service where those who want to watch through the main screen can see what they want there, but also having niche content that can be packaged up for specific audiences.
鈥淚 think that is where the future is for us and why we have spent an awful lot of money, time and thought, in developing our digital platforms, our social media and player.
鈥淭here are less people who are watching the main screen in real time. So the importance of getting as many subscribers as we can to our Clic platform, for example, means we can tailor what we can offer them.鈥
The channel鈥檚 average age profile is in the early 60s, which is not too dissimilar to the BBC. The biggest change though has been the development of its youth brand Hansh.
Mr Evans said: 鈥淚n 2017 it was getting 40,000 views a month, that went up to 750,000, but in March it shot up to 1.5 million. This is slap bang in the 18-24 year old age group, which is one that every broadcaster is chasing.
"This is not to say that older people aren鈥檛 important, as they are. However, it is slightly more important for S4C in trying to make sure that the Welsh language survives and prospers. If we cannot keep youngsters interacting with our content then we are going to lose that cohort, so it is really importance to us to keep the younger market engaged.鈥
S4C broadcasts Wales rugby games live, as well as one game a week from the Guinness Pro-14.
How concerned would he be if the Six Nations, for example, went behind a paywall?
Mr Evans said: 鈥淪port is incredibly important to us in our reach and viewing figures. If it remains free to air then great, if not we would look at some sort of Welsh language free to air carve up, similar to what we did with rugby鈥檚 Pro-14.
鈥淲e have done stuff in the past with football with Wales and the Euros (qualifiers) where Sky had the rights, but we agreed a carve out with them. So, it is not new to us for sport going behind a paywall and then agreeing deals to keep Welsh language free to air content on聽 S4C.
鈥淥ur sport offering in recent years has been one of the best in Wales and we have a very good sporting commissioner. We certainly punch above our weight on coverage and I hope that continues.鈥
Asked if he would like one day to return to Welsh Government in the top job as permanent secretary he said: 鈥淚 am doing what I am doing and it鈥檚 fun and I鈥檓 learning everyday. It鈥檚 a great team with interesting stuff going on, so at the moment I am happy where I am.鈥
